Alucard and Alucard versus the USS Voyager

[Mike DiCenso]

This is silly since Trinoya came up with a reasonable way to win using independant mini-starships. But Hellsing Alucard is the most difficult to defeat depending on how much of his Control Art Restrictions he can remove on his own without his master Integra's permission. The Studio Gonzo anime and true-canon Hirano written and drawn manga show this being done under differening circumstances, and Alrucard's most definitely cannot release to his most powerful form without Integra being there.

Another variation that Trinoya forgot here; instead of just simply beaming him out into space, you pull the old TOS "Wolf in Fold" trick of beaming him into scattered atoms using the transporter's widest possible dispersal mode. Alrucard has come back from some pretty devastating attacks, but never anything like this, and it might take a good long while for him to regenerate having been scattered across potentially hundreds or thousands of cubic kilometers of space. In the mean time, the crew either abandons ship and gets away as fast as possible, or restores systems and warps away from the vicinity.

Now a better fight would be Alrucard versus Vampire Hunter D...
-Mike

[KILL YOUR PARENTS]

This is silly since Trinoya came up with a reasonable way to win using independant mini-starships. But Hellsing Alucard is the most difficult to defeat depending on how much of his Control Art Restrictions he can remove on his own without his master Integra's permission. The Studio Gonzo anime and true-canon Hirano written and drawn manga show this being done under differening circumstances, and Alrucard's most definitely cannot release to his most powerful form without Integra being there.

I think this is sort of a non-issue anyway, since this is probably what Dakarne was referring to as Alucard's "Lovecraftian" hoo-haw.

Failing that, just disable life support on whatever deck they are on... problem solved, even the un-dead can't deal with absolute zero temps, they freeze quite nicely.

wat lol

Turning off life support to a single deck won't magically drop the temperature instantly to absolute zero; it'll just not be heated anymore. At most, it'll cool down to thermal equilibrium with the above and below decks, since they're still heated.

Plus, y'know, do you really think Picard and/or Janeway are ruthless enough to sacrifice a deck full of their crew like that?

I was just wondering about certain limits of his healing ability, even if they weren't using phasers.

In the later stages of the manga it's implied that him being so difficult to kill is actually due to him having consumed all the people since the whatever-century when he was tooling around as Vlad Tepes; basically he has ludicrously high number of "extra lives". And then there's the healing abilities all the other vampires have demonstrated...

EDIT: Also, how do you know that they would be able to lock onto the Alucards in order to beam them off into space? They're dead, they don't have life signs. They were able to do it to Rogar Danar in that one TNG episode by guessing that he was the man-shaped object, but since the Hellsing Alucard does a lot of funky shapeshifting whenever hes got half an excuse, that probably won't work.

[OmniBack]

*yawn* tiring indeed...

It's great that he can 'teleport' and all, but it is completely useless to him AFTER he is exposed to space. The stresses on his form alone will pretty much do him in, even if he does 'teleport.'

Furthermore, the effective range of a transporter is 40,000 kilometers, bye bye, enjoy not being able to see where the hell we are.

Unless of course you want to try to argue that after he is teleported he knows his position in regards to the universe, and everyone elses exact position, and has a similar effective range, which I highly doubt, but just in case he does, and mind you, your validating the argument by arguing against it so I shall continue to use it, he gets to enjoy the wonderful world of pattern degradation, we simply don't let him out of the buffer... enjoy oblivion.

I doubt that Alucard could survive space, that is to say, until he stops being in space, he is rendered inert... being frozen does that do you. Regardless, he is off the ship.

Finally, failing all of that, and to prevent the ship from falling into an 'enemies' hand, I just detonate one of the, now nuclear bombs, in the torpedo bay, taking everyone out, more so once the antimatter in the warp core begins to react.

End of the day: Federation wins or no one wins.

I'll be the first to say in a straight up fight, with just phasers and a tricorder, on a backwater planet Alucard wins the day, but you're putting him on a ship that has other ships inside of it, with working transporters, or, at the very least, a ton of antimatter... Escape pods away, warp core breach in 5... 4... 3...

On a final note/edt: I shall now render the entire topic moot, thereby ending this discussion:

If I want to get really technical, and I do mean really technical, Alucard from hell sing is immortal, and therefore the entire scenario is moot as it never ends, no matter what anyone does, including Alucard.

The systems will be restored upon the death or destruction of both Alucards.

He is forever trapped on voyager, abandoned, alone, and unable to leave. As I said before, enjoy oblivion.

No matter what happens at the end of the day, Alucard never wins, he just looses slightly less, and frankly, I'd rather shoot myself in the head rather than spend eternity on voyager of all places.

You're obviously an idiot, that doesn't know anything about Alucard (Hellsing), so STFU!

[Trinoya]

You sir, are obviouslly a troll, who is also assisting in thread necromancy. In addition to this, I own the Hellsing anime and manga. I watch one and read the other about every four-five months, and just recently bought, finished, and was slightly disappointed by, the OVAs.


That said, I shall concede Janeway and Picard sacrificing their crew to the post above yours.

And on a final final note: Mods this topic ended months ago and I see no new counter points that make my previous statements any less true, save for my concession. Recommend a lock to prevent further necromancy.

[KILL YOUR PARENTS]

That said, I shall concede Janeway and Picard sacrificing their crew to the post above yours.

So uh, you don't concede the point regarding your bizarre peversion of thermodynamics?

[Trinoya]

I already conceded the point in regards to a captain not doing it. I will not concede the point simply because it will take 'a long time.' Time is meaningless to the vampires and frankly, when everyone on board is dead and no one can maintain the systems and life support goes down everywhere and all the forcefields drop opening the ship to space, sooner or later they will simply freeze.

That said, they could always, gee, I don't know, turn the temperature down (or up for that matter) since obscene temp control is seen even as early as ENT. For races capable of matter conversion, temp control is hardly difficult, and on earth, modern day earth, we can already make temperatures near absolute zero (billionths of a kelvin I believe).

And again, mods, please close this. Nothing that has been said disputes the fact that at the end of the day either the federation wins or no one wins (Ally just looses less initially), and no one has defeated the Delta Flyer escape plan yet from the original set up.

[KILL YOUR PARENTS]

I already conceded the point in regards to a captain not doing it. I will not concede the point simply because it will take 'a long time.' Time is meaningless to the vampires and frankly, when everyone on board is dead and no one can maintain the systems and life support goes down everywhere and all the forcefields drop opening the ship to space, sooner or later they will simply freeze.

WHAT? You said they could nullify the threat presented by Team Vampire by shutting down life support; if they are able to murder the entire crew before it does anything then it's hardly an effective strategy, is it?

That said, they could always, gee, I don't know, turn the temperature down (or up for that matter) since obscene temp control is seen even as early as ENT.

Examples, please. Not watched a whole lot of ENT and don't remember anything from what I have. And not just in a lab or anything, I mean of them being able to do it at will in random sections of the ship.

For races capable of matter conversion, temp control is hardly difficult, and on earth, modern day earth, we can already make temperatures near absolute zero (billionths of a kelvin I believe).

Okay, and? Being able to make things cold and being able to use this practically against something like Alucard are two seperate things.

[Trinoya]

In regards to point one: Per the setting, if the crew dies Ally is trapped and looses ANYWAY, he either dies in an antimatter explosion or freezes. Case closed.

In regards to point two: You're not seriously trying to say that they can't turn the temperature up or down at will are you? Even ignoring the various examples of energy-matter conversion you can't not ignore every time someone decided they wanted something a certain temp, be it their room, a hallway, their food, or a specially designed (apparent) cold suit for the Breen. Hell, the heat their ship generates would have to be dealt with on a major scale involving the matter-energy conversion ability (or at least the most awesome heat sink in history) or it would auto-kill the crew!

Point 2a: It's a technology of modern day earth. The federation has humans who evolved from modern day earth. The feds have access to this technology obviously.

Point 2b: They've utilized temp control when meeting aliens to keep them alive (or even kill them in the mirror universe). They've shown the ability to cope with harsh temps, and life support is mentioned as directly controlling temperature in DS9 numerous times (especially when it decided to malfunction.)

On a final note: You have yet to address the auxiliary craft problem. That happens to be the main point of the thread and is why Ally looses. If you do not wish to address it and continue to talk about a point that I conceded on morality several posts ago then it is clear you have no interest in advancing Narsils thread. While I might disagree with how repetitive some of them are, he still does contributes nonetheless with them and I won't belittle them by responding to a conceded point any longer. In short, take your win and deal with it like a normal person and respond to something else, otherwise good day to you.

[KILL YOUR PARENTS]

In regards to point one: Per the setting, if the crew dies Ally is trapped and looses ANYWAY, he either dies in an antimatter explosion or freezes. Case closed.

Okay. Except once the crew are all dead, he's won as per the OP. So this is, in fact, and incredibly silly argument.

In regards to point two: You're not seriously trying to say that they can't turn the temperature up or down at will are you? Even ignoring the various examples of energy-matter conversion you can't not ignore every time someone decided they wanted something a certain temp, be it their room, a hallway, their food, or a specially designed (apparent) cold suit for the Breen.

You're suggesting that being able to make small temperare changes for personal preference in ambient temperature or food extends to beng able to arbitarily pump the temperature of parts ofhe ship down to below the background temperature of space. That is what I am saying they can't do, or at least have never demonstrated as far as I am aware.

Hell, the heat their ship generates would have to be dealt with on a major scale involving the matter-energy conversion ability (or at least the most awesome heat sink in history) or it would auto-kill the crew!

Bleeding off heat from the reactor != being able to magically lower temperaure arbitarily.

Point 2a: It's a technology of modern day earth. The federation has humans who evolved from modern day earth. The feds have access to this technology obviously.

It's not modern day tech since as far as real science knows it's impossible to reach absolute zero. We can get very close, but not without a lot of time and effort, which makes it somewhat impractical to use as a countermeasure against a horrible supernasty vampire.

Point 2b: They've utilized temp control when meeting aliens to keep them alive (or even kill them in the mirror universe). They've shown the ability to cope with harsh temps, and life support is mentioned as directly controlling temperature in DS9 numerous times (especially when it decided to malfunction.)

They have never utilized temperature control to cool things down to absolute zero as you claimed, AFAIK, and I also do not remember them ever doing it in areas not already set up for this sort of thing beyond small changes. Unless you're suggesting the crew could herd them like some sort of infernal bloodsucking cattle into somewhere set up for it.

On a final note: You have yet to address the auxiliary craft problem. That happens to be the main point of the thread and is why Ally looses. If you do not wish to address it and continue to talk about a point that I conceded on morality several posts ago then it is clear you have no interest in advancing Narsils thread.

Narsil has decided that for the purposes of his thread they don't work.

Besides which, before now I hadn't mentioned them.

While I might disagree with how repetitive some of them are, he still does contributes nonetheless with them and I won't belittle them by responding to a conceded point any longer. In short, take your win and deal with it like a normal person and respond to something else, otherwise good day to you.

Concession accepted.

[Trinoya]

I never once said modern science could reach absolute zero so don't go putting words in my mouth. I DID however point out what we were able to do I believe... lets check.

and on earth, modern day earth, we can already make temperatures near absolute zero (billionths of a kelvin I believe)

Oh look, I did. I don't care if Ally is a vamp. "He don't moves no more" at those temps.

(on a purely side note kinda deal, the insectoids from ENT were able to absorb all the heat generated by the ship, making the temp around the ship absolute zero... just a side note).


Moving on to your whole "HE STILL WINS IF HE KILLS THEM" thing. No, he doesn't. He lost, he is forever stuck for all eternity alone. He looses... or did you not read the original post.

The systems will be restored upon the death or destruction of both Alucards.

As such, I'll reiterate, he only looses less. I did an entire post on it. Do you really think Ally wants to be alone till the ship blows up or he freezes? Doubtful. Again, the only options are, "Ally looses to the feds (which he does per the shuttle) or Ally looses to time after he kills the feds."

On a final note: No counter arguments have yet to be given to the shuttle, therefore, I'll accept the concession that the feds ultimately win the day and Ally looses. Mods, can we please lock this one now?[/quote]