Galactic Empire vs. Mass Effect

[Mike DiCenso]

If the Kilimanjaro can stay out of the ISD's effective range long enough, it should be able to penetrate the ISD's shields. After all, in TCW's "The Downfall of a Droid", Munificents' shields were not up to the task of protecting all of the ship from modest sized asteroids striking them at relatively low velocity, and TESB ISDs could not withstand bombardment from 10-20 meter asteroids hitting it for a prolonged period of time. It only stands to reason that a Kilimanjaro firing 20 kg slugs a fraction of c would be able to take down the ISD's shields in a few concentrated shots at most.
-Mike

[The Dude]

*shrug* Can it defend itself from the ISD's fighters at the same time? ME's tech and abilities isn't very well explored.

[User1401]

A Mass Effect dreadnought has its own fighters, as well as a laser point defense system.

[Mike DiCenso]

An important point with that. What are the relative acceleration capabilities of a ME dreadnought versus an ISD? As long as the Kilimanjaro can play keep away with the ISD, all it has to do is keep the TIEs at bay long enough to destroy the ISD.
-Mike

[The Dude]

A Mass Effect dreadnought has its own fighters, as well as a laser point defense system.

Yeah but we don't really know anything about them do we?

[User1401]

Regarding firepower, not really, but we do know about the effectiveness of the GARDIAN laser defense system. GARDIAN is reputedly a 100% accurate automated defense, and has rendered long-range ship-to-ship missiles obsolete in the Mass Effect galaxy. Fighters have to use swarm tactics at extremely close range (which in Mass Effect is regarded as under 10 km) in order for their torpedoes to have a chance at getting through, and take heavy casualties in the process.

Regarding acceleration- there are no hard numbers, but during the course of a battle the engagement range can shift from tens of thousands of kilometers to a few hundred kilometers.

[The Dude]

Is that what the SR-2 used against the collector fighters?

[User1401]

The weapons the SR-2 used against the drones are unnamed by the game, but since they are used again against the Collector ship if the Thanix cannon upgrade is not installed, it's safe to assume they are either mass accelerator cannons or disruptor torpedoes- I prefer to think that they are torpedoe, but there's no concrete proof either way. The SR-2 really should have been shown firing GARDIAN lasers at the drones, since we do know that frigates also have the laser defenses, but Mass Effect cutscenes have a tendency to not mesh very well with the codex on whole.

[l33telboi]

Generally I'd say the Empire holds most of the advantages.

In terms of fleet size and production rates it should have the Council Races beat by a fairly wide margin. And that's just observing the random fleets in the TCW rather then some of the more generous assumptions. Individual fleets of Venator-class cruisers we seen now and again can reach the dozen and mark and above, so galaxy-wide there should be at least a hundred of them. That's a significant disparity in fleet size.

In terms of how well either side are capable of projecting their space force the Empire is also on the winning side. On the defensive they have a much faster FTL travel and communication system. On the offensive it's not as fast given the restriction of hyperspace routes though. The Council races are slower both in defense and offense however. Indeed offensive actions in the GFFA would be near impossible given there are no mass relays in that galaxy.

Ship for ship? That's a tricky question. The SW side typically engages at knife-fight ranges, with the ME side engaging from far away. Both sides definitely have weapons capable of damaging each other, however, so the disparity (whichever way it might swing) isn't going to be too great.

However, that's all in terms of conventional fighting and attritional warfare. I maintain that bringing down something like the Empire would be easiest just by cutting the head off from the snake. I.e. by killing the Emperor. You don't need to occupy or destroy all of their worlds (or any, for that matter), and you don't need to destroy their entire fleet (or any of it, for that matter). The Empire falls with the Emperor.

If the council decides to send out all the specters to try and kill the Emperor it's very likely they'll succeed.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Sorry if this is a minor bump, but really guys?

In terms of military might, Mass Effect is somewhat low end compared to most other sci fi series. Their ground combat is very impressive, but in terms of space combat they'd stand no chance against Star Wars or Star Trek.

Industrial capability: The Codex confirms that less than 1% of the Milky Way had been explored. Most planets have populations of a few thousand. Against a galaxy spanning civilization with millions of planets, Mass Effect so ridiculously outmatched it's staggering. The Empire could literally produce more mass worth of material in a day than the Citadel races could in a century.

Logistics: Hyperdrive usually gives Star Wars an extreme advantage against most other sci fi races, but Mass Effect does have Mass Relays, which are arguably even faster than hyperdrive. That being said, Mass Relays are limited in that they lead to predetermined locations, and can be captured and blockaded. Although their durability is high enough so that it's doubtful if an imperial fleet can damage it in reasonable time, they can still take control of it and blockade it. Mass Effect conventional FTL is faster than warp drive but significantly slower than hyperdrive, is stated to be too slow for cross galactic travel, and has limited fuel, so that in the game you can barely cross a star cluster. In addition, if game mechanics are to believed Mass Effect ships have to drain entire planets of their resources...just to get some upgraded armor.

Space combat: Estimates for Star Wars weaponry and shield strength range from megatons to teratons. The Codex confirms that a dreadnought's main gun is about 38 kilotons, with a RoF of one shot per 2 seconds and iirc only one main gun per dreadnought. This is a massive curbstomp.

Ground combat: This is more balanced, as Mass Effect infantry are very capable. They have powerful railgun-type weapons whose calculations vary from on par with modern weapons to 100 kj. They also have sophisticated hacking systems, kinetic barriers, and biotics which give them an edge in infantry combat, especially given their relatively high level of competence. However, we don't know that much about their large scale armored support; the Codex confirms that they do indeed have them, and the Mako is pretty competent. It has a large railgun with other weapons, a limited jetpack and armor advanced enough to withstand multiple rounds and being airdropped from very high altitudes. In terms of infantry on infantry combat Mass Effect might have an advantage, but in a large scale invasion the Empire is simply too numerous and their heavy weapons are too powerful for Mass Effect to have the edge here.

There is quite literally nothing the Citadel races can do to significantly harm a star destroyer; they could fire at it for weeks and not do any noticeable damage. The only way to plausibly harm it is to somehow make it lower its shields, maybe possible if Mass Effect's hacking abilities are powerful enough; which is extremely unlikely; and hope to destroy it with dreadnought main guns, since Star Wars ships seem to be vulnerable to kinetic impacts.

[Praeothmin]

Estimates for Star Wars weaponry and shield strength range from megatons to teratons. The Codex confirms that a dreadnought's main gun is about 38 kilotons, with a RoF of one shot per 2 seconds and iirc only one main gun per dreadnought. This is a massive curbstomp.

Nope, since the Mass Effect ships are firing solid slugs doing 38KT and since an ISD got its tower destroyed by an asteroid doing around 71KT, then two slugs will do considerable damage to the ISD...

[Trinoya]

Sorry if this is a minor bump, but really guys?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, the general consensus of this thread was that star wars will win, and that in a one on one fight between two of the primary ships in both universes mass effect will need to lower the shields somehow of the star destroyer before they can actually cause harm of any degree, which even with some of our more conservative estimates on this board is still an undertaking.

In fact it was pretty much stated that only the greater range of mass effect even gives them a chance comparatively.

[Mike DiCenso]

Estimates for Star Wars weaponry and shield strength range from megatons to teratons. The Codex confirms that a dreadnought's main gun is about 38 kilotons, with a RoF of one shot per 2 seconds and iirc only one main gun per dreadnought. This is a massive curbstomp.

Nope, since the Mass Effect ships are firing solid slugs doing 38KT and since an ISD got its tower destroyed by an asteroid doing around 71KT, then two slugs will do considerable damage to the ISD...

71 kilotons is overly generous, Praeo. It's more like 9 kt.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Sorry if this is a minor bump, but really guys?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, the general consensus of this thread was that star wars will win, and that in a one on one fight between two of the primary ships in both universes mass effect will need to lower the shields somehow of the star destroyer before they can actually cause harm of any degree, which even with some of our more conservative estimates on this board is still an undertaking.

In fact it was pretty much stated that only the greater range of mass effect even gives them a chance comparatively.

I hope that SWST is actually taking some time to read the postings of a thread as this person seems to ignore most of what is posted in the other threads he/she/it has participated in or started up to this point. As long as TCW is not the precedent used for SW tech, an ISD can defeat an ME SA dreadnought, assuming the dreadnought doesn't stay out of the ISD's range, of course. Earlier discussion of course came to the general concensus that the Galactic Empire stood a very good chance of overrunning the ME Milky Way Galaxy's various factions with sheer numbers.
-Mike

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Estimates for Star Wars weaponry and shield strength range from megatons to teratons. The Codex confirms that a dreadnought's main gun is about 38 kilotons, with a RoF of one shot per 2 seconds and iirc only one main gun per dreadnought. This is a massive curbstomp.

Nope, since the Mass Effect ships are firing solid slugs doing 38KT and since an ISD got its tower destroyed by an asteroid doing around 71KT, then two slugs will do considerable damage to the ISD...

Said asteroid hit what was potentially the weakest part of the star destroyer while its shields were down. Had its shields been up, the asteroid would not have done any damage to the star destroyer.

There is quite literally nothing the Citadel fleets can do through brute force to a shielded star destroyer, or even a shielded frigate.