LMAO@SpaceBattles!

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Not sure if Kor was saying that everyone else is wrong, but surely it seems that every time, or most of the times, it takes two to dance, yet the other barely get any warning, despite flaming at abandon.
Even Mith was walking on eggs. You know, the obliged über political correctness and gentleness that forces you to triple the size of each reply just to avoid bruising any sensible ego and serving the blade that's going to dice you, with things like "imho" or "but I could be totally wrong and freely admit my mistake" or "if that is so then I'm sorry I didn't mean it..." blah blah blah.

I literally only report things that i have had warnings for doing in the past and i find it quite amusing that he considers some of them "MOUSE FART" levels of importance when done to me while in some cases i got long term points for doing the same or less.

[Admiral Breetai]

these guys are friggen pathetic and the site admins more so for not cold cocking these clowns for obvious biased

still don't get how the site famous for "wong is wrong" and the monkey taking a whiz on him pic is so completely subverted now adays

[Praeothmin]

"Nothing in our inventory would even come close to doing the job, but an astropathic message to the nearest naval unit would bring a task force here within weeks, and a flotilla of battleships ought to be enough to level the continent. A couple of barrages from their lance batteries would be enough to excise this cancer, however deeply it was buried.

Of course the planet would be rendered uninhabitable for generations"

The way i read that is that:

1. It would take a flotilla of battleships a unknown amount of time to "level a continent" so the ship or fleet Orsai had at his disposal (if he had one) could not.

2. That it would take the entire flotilla of battleships firing all their lance batteries multiple times to blast a buried something or other.

3. That doing so will cause some sort of nuclear winter ect that will make the planet uninhabitable.

It should be noted that i do not know the entire context or have seen the entire quote or reference.

The way I read this was that it would take a flotilla (how big it is is unknown) to "level a continent".
The "couple of barrages of their Lance Batteries" in this case seems to point to a precise target, not the entire continent.
But just as with many books, I do believe "level a continent" in this case is pure hyperbole...
How big is the flotilla?
Unknown.
How many Lance Batteries are in play here?
Unknown.
What other weapons would be used here?
Unknown.
Could you make a planet uninhabitable by destroying an entire continent?
Well, yeah, by creating fallout all over the world, and possibly a nuclear winter, not to mention all the firestorms created by the bombardment...

[Mr. Oragahn]

these guys are friggen pathetic and the site admins more so for not cold cocking these clowns for obvious biased

still don't get how the site famous for "wong is wrong" and the monkey taking a whiz on him pic is so completely subverted now adays

Lack of cult around figures of authority (two of them), no organized incentive to invade other boards, more honest approach to their own universe than SDN denizens did towards Star Wars, and perhaps some very embarrassing idiots on the Trek side that allowed brushing all Trekkies the same way.
Plus most active members not making much efforts and not knowing their stuff, and largely following the consensus, opening their mouths and being quite abrasive, which is enough to put off lone debaters.

[Mike DiCenso]

That's a pretty good summary of the why of how SBC wound up the way it is today, and you've hit all the basics right on the head, Mr. O.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

This should be interesting:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthre ... 596&page=4

I do find it entertaining that Aratech later on page 5 gets on his high hourse about infractions ect:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=111

When the fact is that it is HIM who is ignoring evidence provided as well as he who introduced such behaviour as "Red herring and sniping Violation of forum protocol six Stay on topic." into the thread (well him and leo1) in posts 85 and 86:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... stcount=85

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... stcount=86

Pretty standard hippocrisy tbh but worth noting as leo1 seems to be looking to get his buddy mods involved by his later comments.

Anybody wanna make a prediction (other than the obvious one i mean)?.

[Mr. Oragahn]

You brought SDN to the thread, and it's against SBC's rules. Affairs of other boards do not concern us. In this case, they'd be right to uphold it against you I'm afraid (even if they have abused this rule in the past to avoid long evidence from other places being cited).
Even if Aratech largely flamed you, but that's usual on SBC, it happens all the time, even if mods at time suddenly act like it never happens and never should. Meh.

I saw the klingons vs DS9 mentioned but the fact is that by TNG onwards era's sensors and weapon accuracy would allow them to easily track and hit ships at warp. In Generations according to worfs comment about shooting down sorins missile they can even hit a small missile moving at warp while the ship is in orbit.

Firing at a single missile on a predictable course, from a known point of departure, is not the same as trying to intercept an unknown amount of missiles fired at an unknown speed from an unknown location since the ship firing them can actually move around so fast that from your subsonic position, it's practically everywhere and nowhere at once, while you are the sitting duck, especially in the case of DS9.

So actually, spending more energy into Warp instead of channeling it through the shields makes far more sense. Heck, for all I care, I'd put all into Warp, very little into the shields, and mass spam the target with an alpha strike ASAP.

While two mutually warp strafing ships makes for a very impractical battle that would last forever as there would be more chances to die of the local star going supernova than getting hit by a phaser or torp, there's nothing such as that kind of workable excuse against fixed targets.

I'd rather consider that warp straffing never existed, treat it as an outlier, than try to rationalize it by shoehorning impossible excuses.
That said, I'm all ears out to any plausible explanation.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You brought SDN to the thread, and it's against SBC's rules. Affairs of other boards do not concern us. In this case, they'd be right to uphold it against you I'm afraid (even if they have abused this rule in the past to avoid long evidence from other places being cited).
Even if Aratech largely flamed you, but that's usual on SBC, it happens all the time, even if mods at time suddenly act like it never happens and never should. Meh.

It is just fucking typical of SB.com and that asshole Aratech to ignore the fact i made a post and his reply was ALL insult, the twat even goes on to claim he had only resorted to a insult after defeating my argument when we can clearly see he made no other comment before the insult at all.

Firing at a single missile on a predictable course, from a known point of departure, is not the same as trying to intercept an unknown amount of missiles fired at an unknown speed from an unknown location since the ship firing them can actually move around so fast that from your subsonic position, it's practically everywhere and nowhere at once, while you are the sitting duck, especially in the case of DS9.

I was not talking about shooting the missiles i was talking about the ships, the example of generations was in regards to hitting a much smaller object.

So actually, spending more energy into Warp instead of channeling it through the shields makes far more sense. Heck, for all I care, I'd put all into Warp, very little into the shields, and mass spam the target with an alpha strike ASAP.

While two mutually warp strafing ships makes for a very impractical battle that would last forever as there would be more chances to die of the local star going supernova than getting hit by a phaser or torp, there's nothing such as that kind of workable excuse against fixed targets.

I'd rather consider that warp straffing never existed, treat it as an outlier, than try to rationalize it by shoehorning impossible excuses.
That said, I'm all ears out to any plausible explanation.

Personally i do not really care i was just chatting and got insulted so replied in kind and it kinda snowballed.

[Praeothmin]

It is just fucking typical of SB.com and that asshole Aratech to ignore the fact i made a post and his reply was ALL insult, the twat even goes

Kor, no need for the insults.
Please keep only the facts, thanks...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

It is just fucking typical of SB.com and that asshole Aratech to ignore the fact i made a post and his reply was ALL insult, the twat even goes

Kor, no need for the insults.
Please keep only the facts, thanks...

I find it quite ironic that on SB.com Aratech is actually arguing that he has the right to throw out insults towards me due to him thinking he is right about a issue in the topic and i am wrong.

Still your warning is noted and will be adhered to.

[Lucky]

This should be interesting:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthre ... 596&page=4

I do find it entertaining that Aratech later on page 5 gets on his high hourse about infractions ect:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=111

When the fact is that it is HIM who is ignoring evidence provided as well as he who introduced such behaviour as "Red herring and sniping Violation of forum protocol six Stay on topic." into the thread (well him and leo1) in posts 85 and 86:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... stcount=85

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... stcount=86

Pretty standard hippocrisy tbh but worth noting as leo1 seems to be looking to get his buddy mods involved by his later comments.

Anybody wanna make a prediction (other than the obvious one i mean)?.

I find Leo1's posting of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3IIngsLdjU#t=5m24sas proof of short weapons ranges as odd since the maximum ranges for Dominion weapons are stated to be least 100,000 kilometers, cardassian ranges are also in the hundreds of thousand kilometer. To be minutes out of range would possibly mean the fleet is still light-years away, and that DS-9 is either not to scale, or everything is far larger in star trek then most people think.

How large would DS-9 have to be in order to be seen like that from over 100,000 kilometers like that? It seems like it would have to be almost the size of the Death Star at least, and that would mean everything in Star Trek is far larger then most people assume.

[Praeothmin]

That's ok Lucky, since ANH clearly shows us ranges in SW are even shorter, as the Tie fighter being pursued by the falcon was out of range at a distance of at most a few km... :)

[Lucky]

That's ok Lucky, since ANH clearly shows us ranges in SW are even shorter, as the Tie fighter being pursued by the falcon was out of range at a distance of at most a few km... :)

What do Star Wars weapon ranges have to do with the size of Star Trek ships and stations?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3IIngsLdjU#t=5m24sas
At 5:36 it will be about one minute until they are in range. Assuming they are talking about Dominion weapons ranges that means they are farther then 100,000 kilometers away or they would be in range. I was wondering if we have enough information to know how large the station is in the picture, and noting that the clip does not help Leo1's claim because weapons ranges are a known quantity, and it also hurts his claim that visuals are at all accurate.

If visuals can't be trusted to accurately show what is going on then Leo1, Nightmare, and Aratech's arguments fall apart.

1 minute until DS-9 is in range means that it will be one minute until DS-9 is at least 100,000 kilometers away.

So is it possible to figure out how large DS-9 is in that clip? I don't know how to figure this out, and I'm not sure you can figure it out beyond a size range.

[Mr. Oragahn]

That's ok Lucky, since ANH clearly shows us ranges in SW are even shorter, as the Tie fighter being pursued by the falcon was out of range at a distance of at most a few km... :)

What do Star Wars weapon ranges have to do with the size of Star Trek ships and stations?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3IIngsLdjU#t=5m24sas
At 5:36 it will be about one minute until they are in range. Assuming they are talking about Dominion weapons ranges that means they are farther then 100,000 kilometers away or they would be in range. I was wondering if we have enough information to know how large the station is in the picture, and noting that the clip does not help Leo1's claim because weapons ranges are a known quantity, and it also hurts his claim that visuals are at all accurate.

If visuals can't be trusted to accurately show what is going on then Leo1, Nightmare, and Aratech's arguments fall apart.

1 minute until DS-9 is in range means that it will be one minute until DS-9 is at least 100,000 kilometers away.

So is it possible to figure out how large DS-9 is in that clip? I don't know how to figure this out, and I'm not sure you can figure it out beyond a size range.

Another case of "soon in range" where a ship happens to already be in range from facts established in other episodes.
We know they can fire at surface of planets if needed, which implies ranges of hundreds of kilometers against large and immobile targets, and DS9 was hardly small and mobile, so the visuals are already debunked there, although the 100,000 km range is most likely only related to torps. Not to say that I recently read that torps tap their own AM reserve ? Would that mean they'd be quite weak once reaching such ranges?
Plus they'd be giving the defense enough time to intercept them anyway.

[Lucky]

Another case of "soon in range" where a ship happens to already be in range from facts established in other episodes.
We know they can fire at surface of planets if needed, which implies ranges of hundreds of kilometers against large and immobile targets, and DS9 was hardly small and mobile, so the visuals are already debunked there,

Still be fun to see that scene scaled.^_^

although the 100,000 km range is most likely only related to torps.

Phasers and Photon torpedos are both shown to be used at ranges that are between 300,000, and 100,000 kilometers effectively.

The Kazon have torpedos that have a range of 4,500,000 kilometers.

There are at least a few torpedo sized objects that have warp(warp 9?) drives as I recall.

You may want to look this over: http://st-v-sw.net/STSW-WeaponRange-Trek.html

Not to say that I recently read that torps tap their own AM reserve ? Would that mean they'd be quite weak once reaching such ranges?

There is nothing in canon to support that, that is stupid, and I can think of a few episodes that contradict it. They remove the matter/anti-matter warhead at least once with no ill effect. That sounds like the misinformation the tech manual talks about.

Plus they'd be giving the defense enough time to intercept them anyway.

That is canon Voyager casually destroyed a Kazon torpedo shot from a few million kilometers away. Given the Kazon have crappy tech for the setting I doubt they have longer anything ranges then the UFP.