Warp Speeds List

[359]

I misspoke, it's a power curve not exponential, sorry. The reason for my suspicion of the lower warp values is that warp one came out at roughly 400c and warp two at 2100c, which doesn't fit very well with my general impression of very low warp. The other reason for inaccuracy with this curve type is that it doesn't approach infinity as x->10, which the TNG+ warp scale is described as doing (although I personally have always found that to be somewhat stupid in concept).

[Lucky]

I misspoke, it's a power curve not exponential, sorry. The reason for my suspicion of the lower warp values is that warp one came out at roughly 400c and warp two at 2100c, which doesn't fit very well with my general impression of very low warp.

Can't impressions be wrong? Warp 1 is a big deal, warp 5 seems to be the next milestone, then warp 7, and then warp 9.

The other reason for inaccuracy with this curve type is that it doesn't approach infinity as x->10, which the TNG+ warp scale is described as doing (although I personally have always found that to be somewhat stupid in concept).

I only recall that from Voyager: Threshold, and I vaguely seem to recall it was subtly declared non-canon do to even the writers realizing how stupid the events in it were. Even the people who made it realized how stupid it was.

Just because you can't reach a warp factor yet does not make that warp factor a sideways eight.

[359]

I misspoke, it's a power curve not exponential, sorry. The reason for my suspicion of the lower warp values is that warp one came out at roughly 400c and warp two at 2100c, which doesn't fit very well with my general impression of very low warp.

Can't impressions be wrong? Warp 1 is a big deal, warp 5 seems to be the next milestone, then warp 7, and then warp 9.

Sure, my impression could be entirely wrong. But it is fairly clear that warp one should be 1c.

I only recall that from Voyager: Threshold, and I vaguely seem to recall it was subtly declared non-canon do to even the writers realizing how stupid the events in it were. Even the people who made it realized how stupid it was.

Just because you can't reach a warp factor yet does not make that warp factor a sideways eight.

I'm fairly certain the episode is still canon, and it seems to be generally accepted that warp ten is infinite velocity.

[Lucky]

Sure, my impression could be entirely wrong. But it is fairly clear that warp one should be 1c.

I'm fairly certain that Star Trek ships can reach 1c/300,000 kilometers a second with "sub-light" propulsion alone.

RIKER: Thirty seconds to warp threshold. ...Approaching light-speed.


COCHRANE: We're at critical velocity.

I'm fairly certain that Impulse alone if a faster then light drive.

KIRK: Mister Chekov, lay in a course for Troyius. Mister Sulu, impulse drive, speed factor point zero three seven. 


SULU: Impulse drive, Captain? 


KIRK: Yes, that's correct, Mister Sulu. Sublight factor point zero three seven.


SULU: Aye, aye, sir. 


SCOTT: Captain? You'll not be using the warp drive? All the way on impulse? That'll take a great deal of time. 


KIRK: You in a hurry, Mister Scott? 


SCOTT: No. 


(Spock enters.) 


SPOCK: Captain, the Dohlman is dissatisfied with the quarters provided. 


UHURA: What's the matter with them, Mister Spock? 


SPOCK: I do not know, but all the Elasians seem most irrational. 


UHURA: I gave up my quarters because I 


KIRK: Yes, I appreciate your sacrifice, Lieutenant Uhura. I'll talk to her myself.

Kirk may have been told to take his time getting there, but none of them have years to kill. Impulse must be capable of "slow" faster then light velocities.

I'm fairly certain the episode is still canon, and it seems to be generally accepted that warp ten is infinite velocity.

Well I seem to recall Tom Paris making a remark that contradicts Threshold even happening, but I can't find it. Something about never going faster then warp something or other.

LAFORGE: Captain, we're passing warp ten!

This would contradict the idea that warp 10 is a sideways eight.

[359]

Sure, my impression could be entirely wrong. But it is fairly clear that warp one should be 1c.

I'm fairly certain that Star Trek ships can reach 1c/300,000 kilometers a second with "sub-light" propulsion alone.

RIKER: Thirty seconds to warp threshold. ...Approaching light-speed.


COCHRANE: We're at critical velocity

.I'm fairly certain that Impulse alone if a faster then light drive.

Yes, impulse has been shown many times as exceeding light-speed, but that doesn't mean that warp one couldn't be slower. One can still use an electric motor to go slower than an internal combustion engine's maximum, yet it is more advanced and efficient at comparable speeds, and if you had more total energy than is currently possible you could go much faster than a combustion engine as well.
http://starfleetjedi.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6330
In this thread I have several examples of impulse being capable of minor FTL.

In the end, warp one appears to be 1c, and has been referenced as such (Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, etc...).

Well I seem to recall Tom Paris making a remark that contradicts Threshold even happening, but I can't find it. Something about never going faster then warp something or other.

Even if he did, it does not remove it from existence or canon by mere contradiction.

LAFORGE: Captain, we're passing warp ten!

This would contradict the idea that warp 10 is a sideways eight.

Yes, and there are many others as well. Personally I have never particularly cared for the whole 'warp ten is infinite velocity' thing. But some may object to the curve not reflecting that and it seems to be the general consensus on the issue, and that is why I mentioned it.

[sonofccn]

In the end, warp one appears to be 1c, and has been referenced as such (Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, etc...).

Well, if you'll allow me, I think I might disagree.

Concerning Cochrane's flight Riker states this :

RIKER: Doctor, tomorrow morning when they detect the warp signature from your ship and realize that humans have discovered how to travel faster than light, they decide to alter their course and make first contact with Earth, right here.

And as for the flight itself we get descriptions like the following:

LAFORGE: Plasma injectors are on-line. Everything's looking good. I think we're ready.
RIKER: They should be out there right now. We better break the warp barrier in the next five minutes if we're going to get their attention

RIKER: Thirty seconds to warp threshold. ...Approaching light-speed

I would submit warp threshold and Warp 1 are not necessarily one and the same. Admittedly the example of Mach Numbers would paint towards this through I would argue not definitively. For supporting evidence, in addition to references in TOS to the Big E warping away at Warp 1, I'll point to this from Fortunate Son:

T'POL: The Earth cargo ship Fortunate. Y-class freighter, maximum speed warp one point eight. Crew complement twenty three.
TRAVIS: Not counting newborn babies.
ARCHER: Ensign?
TRAVIS: I grew up on a J-class, a little smaller but the same basic design, and one thing I can tell you is that at warp one point eight you've got a lot of time on your hands between ports. That's how my parents wound up with me.

TRAVIS: Think about it. You're a dozen light years from home with twenty kilotons of dilithium ore in your hold, armed with nothing but a pop-gun for shooting oncoming meteors. What would you do?

Assuming Travis isn't just hyperboling it implies ship's like Fortunate or his family's Horizon operate in a radius of 12 light years from Earth. And while slow it isn't implied to take a notable number of years to return as Travis did to join Starfleet. And the 1.8 is a hard maximum for a loaded freighter as we learn in Horizon:

PAUL: No. Transfer reserve power to the hull plating. We need to get out of their weapons range. Go to maximum warp.
TRAVIS: You're hauling thirty thousand metric tons. You're not going to be able to outrun them.
PAUL: You heard me.
JUAN: Yes, sir. Warp one point six, one point seven, warp one point eight (the old tub is shaking a lot)
TRAVIS: They're still closing.
PAUL: A little more.
JUAN: One point eight five.

So cruise is likely 1.5 or some such.

Hardly rock solid evidence I grant you but, I hope, suggestive. 1c just seems to low to me to fit in with a "rational" speed scale.

[Lucky]

Yes, impulse has been shown many times as exceeding light-speed, but that doesn't mean that warp one couldn't be slower. One can still use an electric motor to go slower than an internal combustion engine's maximum, yet it is more advanced and efficient at comparable speeds, and if you had more total energy than is currently possible you could go much faster than a combustion engine as well.
http://starfleetjedi.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6330
In this thread I have several examples of impulse being capable of minor FTL.

The warp barrier or warp threshold is meaningless if it is equal to warp 1



RIKER: They should be out there right now. We better break the warp barrier in the next five minutes if we're going to get their attention.

-=-=-=-=-=-

RIKER: Thirty seconds to warp threshold. ...Approaching light-speed.


COCHRANE: We're at critical velocity.

We see the Phoenix suddenly accelerate when it goes to warp implying that warp is far faster then the "warp threshold" which is about 1c.

In the end, warp one appears to be 1c, and has been referenced as such (Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, etc...).

Are you talking about this:

KIRK: Impulse power, Mister Sulu. Ahead, warp point five. ...Departure angle on viewer.


SULU: Departure angle.


KIRK: Viewer ahead.

It doesn't make sense on its own merits.

Even if he did, it does not remove it from existence or canon by mere contradiction.

It would mean that the event is not acknowledged as having happened, and the writers actually admitting they screwed up. They've done so in interviews.

Yes, and there are many others as well. Personally I have never particularly cared for the whole 'warp ten is infinite velocity' thing. But some may object to the curve not reflecting that and it seems to be the general consensus on the issue, and that is why I mentioned it.

One event(Voyager: Threshold) can not over rule multiple contradictory events that happen in several Star Treks. You simply discard the outlier, and explain why.

[359]

Warp in the new movies is portrayed as much faster than before. Traveling from Klingon space to a couple hundred thousand kilometers from earth took the same time as Dr. Marcus running from sickbay to the bridge plus one or two minutes.

[Mike DiCenso]

Unfortunately, we don't have an idea how long it took Marcus to run from sickbay to the bridge since we don't have any idea where it is located on the Alt-prise versus the original Prime Timeline design. Given how big the Atl-prise is, if she (Marcus) ran from the middle of the saucer section 6 to 10 decks down, it could have taken her up to 20 minutes depending how far she had to run to get to a turbolift, if any were still available and how long between cut scenes for the Vengence to catch up with the Alt-prise. But certainly the time was no more than an hour.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

At the rate she was running, I doubt it took an hour, but if we used an hour, than the calculated speed would be an absolute low-end...

How far is Kronos from Earth again?

The close proximity of Qo'noS and Earth was established in the pilot episode "Broken Bow" of Star Trek: Enterprise. Qo'noS was located only four days away at warp 4.5. "Two Days and Two Nights" established that this was at most only 90 light years away, as that was the farthest away from Earth any Human had ever gone up to that point.

I know some people on other sites said Warp 4 has been described in some places as 64c, but where is this speed indicated?
In any case, it is Canon 90 LY was the farthest anyone had been before...
It is Canon that the Klingon Empire shares a border with the Cardassian union, and also with the Romulans (TNG: Redemption II)...
We know that the Romulans must cross Federation space to get to the Wormhole (DS9, at least it was the impression given to me, for how could the Dominion sweep away the Feds and the Klingons first, before continuing towards the Romulans afterwards?)...
So, is 90 LY a good distance?

On DITL, they mention that on route to Qo'NoS, the Enterprise has to divert to Rigel, which is close to 800 LY away from us...
This site makes an interesting observation:

With its almost 800 light years distance, the real star Rigel has often been quoted as too far away from Earth to be indeed the central star of the important Star Trek system (mentioned in more than a dozen episodes!). While we had no evidence to really reject Rigel = Beta Orionis in the past, the pilot of the new series "Enterprise", "Broken Bow" clearly establishes that at least the "Rigel" mentioned in this episode, and the associated alien trading colony on the tenth planet, cannot have any relation to the real star for four reasons: 800 light years in 4 days are, even with the "Cochrane factor" justification, too far a stretch, the distance contradicts with the "15 light years from our current position" statement, the good Captain does not know anything about the system when he learns about it (while he should know it if it's the star known to Earth science for two thousand years) and, first and foremost, how should a Klingon source know anything about our Arabic designations for stars? "Rigel" can only be a alien homophone here, and it may be a homophone as well in some of the other mentions, comfortably solving the distance problem plus the improbabilities that a) one star has so many class M planets and b) that Beta Orionis has a planet that has developed intelligent life on its own (impossible given the short life span of super giants).

So then, can we establish Qo'NoS as being between 15 and 90 LY away from Earth?
This would put the NuEnt at speeds between 131 400c to 788 400c, at a minimum...
If Carol Marcus took only 20 minutes, then the speeds can go up to 394 200c and 2 365 200c...

[Khas]

Actually, according to the Star Chart seen in TNG's season 1, Qo'noS (called "Kling") is shown to be several thousand light-years away. The reason that Enterprise was able to get to Qo'noS so quickly was given in the Star Trek Star Charts, which, while non-canon, offer a nice explanation. Subspace Shortcuts. Think of them basically as a current a ship at warp can hitch a ride to, kinda like using the Gulf Stream. Explains the inconsistencies, with how Enterprise is able to reach Klingon space in such a short time.

[Cocytus]

So then, can we establish Qo'NoS as being between 15 and 90 LY away from Earth? This would put the NuEnt at speeds between 131 400c to 788 400c, at a minimum...If Carol Marcus took only 20 minutes, then the speeds can go up to 394 200c and 2 365 200c...

Well, given that Delta Vega moved from the edge of Federation space to the Vulcan star system, I don't know how reliable cross-universe comparisons would be.

Actually, according to the Star Chart seen in TNG's season 1, Qo'noS (called "Kling") is shown to be several thousand light-years away. The reason that Enterprise was able to get to Qo'noS so quickly was given in the Star Trek Star Charts, which, while non-canon, offer a nice explanation. Subspace Shortcuts. Think of them basically as a current a ship at warp can hitch a ride to, kinda like using the Gulf Stream. Explains the inconsistencies, with how Enterprise is able to reach Klingon space in such a short time.

Rather like the ridiculous trip to the center of the galaxy in Star Trek V.

[Khas]

Could just be two worlds with the same name, like how some moons in our solar system share their names with asteroids.

[Lucky]

Actually, according to the Star Chart seen in TNG's season 1, Qo'noS (called "Kling") is shown to be several thousand light-years away. The reason that Enterprise was able to get to Qo'noS so quickly was given in the Star Trek Star Charts, which, while non-canon, offer a nice explanation. Subspace Shortcuts. Think of them basically as a current a ship at warp can hitch a ride to, kinda like using the Gulf Stream. Explains the inconsistencies, with how Enterprise is able to reach Klingon space in such a short time.

CHAKOTAY: Before the probe was disabled, it picked up a narrow corridor of space devoid of Borg activity. We've nicknamed it the Northwest Passage. 


TORRES: Unfortunately, the passage is filled with intense gravimetric distortions. probably caused by a string of quantum singularities. 


PARIS: Better to ride the rapids than face the hive.

Apparently there are things beyond physical objects like planets and stars that effect warp travel, and this ignores the stupid in TNG: Force of Nature. The topography of space is not uniform

[359]

DS9: "Trials and Tribble-ations":

Sisko: "Two weeks ago the Cardassian Government contacted me and wanted to return an Orb to the Bajorans."
...
Sisko: "With the Defiant under cloak we left Cardassian space and managed to avoid being detected by the Klingons. We were halfway home, and I was just starting to breath easy."

The message from the Cardassians was sent two weeks prior to the arrival of the people from Temporal Investigations on the station. Without any delay of departure to Cardassia, no travel time, and no time spent in the past before the Defiant's return that leaves two weeks maximum for the investigators to travel to the station from earth. Using a distance between 4,000 ly and 2,000 ly gives a speed for their transport as between 104,357c and 52,179c.

Figuring a day or two expended in departure, transit, and time in the past (although possibly not as they could reappear at the exact same instance, but orbs do not normaly work like that) gives a transit time of about 12 days for speeds between 121,766c and 60,883c.

Given the apparent age of their transport I would guess that it is not any faster than a Denube-class runabout, probably traveling around warp five to seven. Especially as vessels which are not starships are not normally capable of traveling very fast. Even starships rarely travel all that quickly relative to their maximum speed due to things including stress on the warp engines etc...

Warp: unknown (probably 5 to 7); Time: 14 to 12 days; Distance: 4,000 ly or 2,000 ly